[Proposal #794] [VOTE ONCHAIN] Stride to join ATOM Economic Zone and adopt ICS

*****June 13th update: this proposal achieved social consensus via a successful signaling proposal, on May 11th. On June 13th, two executable proposals went live, which will implement this proposal - an ICS on-boarding proposal and a liquidity provision proposal. *****


Summary

This is a signaling proposal for the Stride blockchain to join the ATOM Economic Zone and adopt interchain security (ICS) from Cosmos Hub.

Under this proposal, Stride would share its various revenues with Cosmos Hub as follows:

  • 15% of liquid staking rewards
  • 15% of STRD inflationary staking rewards
  • 15% of maximal extractible value (MEV) revenue
  • 15% of transaction fees

In return, Cosmos Hub would share its economic security with Stride. Also, since Stride would be part of the ATOM Economic Zone, Cosmos Hub would share 450,000 ATOM, to be provided to an stATOM/ATOM liquidity pool on Astroport’s Neutron deployment. These funds would be used to facilitate trading between stATOM and ATOM, would not be spent in any way, would remain the property of Cosmos Hub, and would always remain under the control of Cosmos Hub.

In order to be implemented, this proposal must be affirmed by both Stride onchain governance and Cosmos Hub onchain governance. It is being posted to both governance forums simultaneously.


Change log

April 13th - Created original post on Cosmos Hub and Stride gov forums.

June 13th - Executable ICS prop and separate liquidity provision prop now live. Editing this post to include technical info about Stride’s transition to ICS.


Timeline for June and July

June 13th - ICS prop and liquidity provision prop live onchain.

June 27th - Both proposals pass. ATOM Accelerator DAO executes the steps necessary to provide the 450K ATOM to the stATOM pool on Neutron.

July 11th - Stride contributors distribute a commit hash for Cosmos Hub validators to verify. That way, they can review the Stride code. On this date, a more detailed guide for validators will be posted on the Cosmos Hub forum, informed by the lessons learned from Neutron’s testnets and launch.

July 18th - Before the spawn time, the Hub validator set must run a Stride full node, assign their consensus keys, and sync with the Stride chain.

July 19th - Spawn time occurs at 2023-07-19T05:00:00Z, 12 hours before the scheduled upgrade on Stride.

July 19th - A genesis file containing ccv state will be provided to Stride validators so they can execute the upgrade (this can only be generated after the spawn time).

July 19th - Around 2023-07-19T17:00:00Z and block 4616678 on Stride, Stride chain will halt. The current Stride validator set must execute the upgrade. During the upgrade, the validator set will switch, and shortly after the upgrade the Hub validator set will start signing blocks (the synced full nodes will have voting power after the upgrade).


Stride blockchain background

The Stride blockchain launched on September 4th, 2022. As a gesture of friendship, 2.2M STRD (2.2% total supply) was airdropped to ATOM stakers. This airdrop continues to be claimed, as every month unclaimed STRD is recycled into a new airdrop to ATOM stakers.

The Stride blockchain has a single purpose: to provide the best liquid staking service for chains in the Cosmos ecosystem. Stride protocol currently provides liquid staking for seven Cosmos chains, and has over 80% of Cosmos ecosystem liquid staking market share.

With Stride’s stTokens integrated into major DeFi apps across the Cosmos, a rapidly growing TVL, and more IBC traffic than almost any other Cosmos chain – the Stride blockchain has clearly achieved product market fit.

Stride’s top priority is security; it always has been and always will be. Like the Cosmos Hub, Stride is a highly secure minimalist blockchain, with no smart contracts and no other apps beside the core liquid staking protocol. The Stride codebase has been fully audited by numerous security firms, and receives continuous auditing from Informal Systems. And the Stride blockchain is protected by IBC rate-limiting. (See appendix for further security details.) In keeping with Stride’s total emphasis on security, adopting ICS makes sense.

Like any other Cosmos chain, the Stride blockchain currently receives economic security from its staked governance token. But this means that its economic security is limited by the economic value of its governance token. With ICS from the Cosmos Hub, the Stride blockchain can get around this limitation and achieve a much greater level of economic security than it could on its own.


The ATOM Economic Zone and ICS

Interchain security from Cosmos Hub offers the Stride blockchain an enormous increase in economic security. As of this writing, the economic security of Stride is ~$22 million, while Cosmos Hub is at ~$2.5 billion. As an ICS consumer chain, the Stride blockchain would enjoy the same level of economic security as Cosmos Hub - a nearly 115x increase.

Achieving the same level of economic security as the Cosmos Hub would represent an affirmation of Stride’s total commitment to security. Whales, institutions, and DAOs would likely be more comfortable liquid staking large amounts of ATOM and other Cosmos tokens with Stride protocol. Furthermore, other Cosmos blockchains and DeFi apps would likely feel more comfortable integrating with Stride protocol and supporting stTokens.

Joining the ATOM Economic Zone would also benefit the Stride blockchain. The ATOM Economic Zone is a special group of Cosmos blockchains that work together to help and support each other in order to achieve mutual benefits. If the Neutron and Stride blockchains are both granted access to ICS from the Cosmos Hub, then those three blockchains would be the founding members of the ATOM Economic Zone.

If this proposal is approved, the Cosmos Hub would share 450,000 ATOM with Stride, to be provided to an stATOM/ATOM liquidity pool on the Astroport DEX on Neutron. (See appendix for Astroport details.) This action would provide mutual benefits for all three potential founding members of the Economic Zone.

For Neutron, this stATOM trading liquidity would likely increase trading volume, which would generate transaction fees and create MEV revenue. Also, this liquidity may help attract more app developers to Neutron.

For Stride, this stATOM trading liquidity would increase the usefulness and popularity of stATOM. This is because in order to achieve more and bigger integrations, stATOM needs deeper and deeper trading liquidity.

For Cosmos Hub, there would be many benefits. Since this would increase revenue for both Neutron and Stride, ICS payments to the Cosmos Hub would increase. And this liquidity would further cement liquid staked ATOM as the best collateral token in the Cosmos, which would likely increase demand for ATOM.

All these mutual benefits would come at a very low cost. The 450K ATOM would simply sit in a liquidity pool, facilitating trading between stATOM and ATOM. These funds would not be spent in any way, and they would always remain under the complete control of Cosmos Hub. And it bears noting that at the current Cosmos Hub community pool tax rate, 450K ATOM represents just five weeks of tax revenue.


Stride blockchain’s transition to ICS

No live blockchain has ever adopted interchain security. Stride blockchain will potentially be the first. There would be a few minor changes, but the average user of Stride protocol likely wouldn’t notice any difference.

Stride blockchain’s current set of one-hundred validators would become “governors,” and would retain their current STRD delegations. A governor does everything a validator does, except validate transactions.

STRD holders would be able to stake with a governor of their choosing. By doing so, STRD stakers would be compensated with inflationary STRD rewards and Stride protocol revenue, as they are now. Governors would be able to set an optional commission, and would vote on behalf of delegators (delegators will still be able to vote themselves, if they want).

In order to attract delegations, governors may choose to run relayers, provide endpoints, provide analytics, create educational content, actively participate in governance discourse, and so on. Just like validators normally do. Anyone can become a governor: becoming a governor is a permissionless process, as is operating a validator today.

Inflationary STRD staking rewards would remain. But since staking STRD would no longer be vital to the economic security of the chain, there would be a special inflationary staking reward halvening when ICS was adopted. According to the STRD tokenomics, STRD staking rewards are reduced by 50% every year on September 4th. That halvening schedule would remain in place, but in addition there would be a special 50% staking reward reduction when ICS was adopted. This is designed to make the STRD tokenomics more sustainable.


Stride blockchain revenue sources

The Stride blockchain is offering to share more revenue with the Cosmos Hub than any ICS applicant ever has before. Also, since Stride is an existing blockchain and already has momentum, it would be able to share significant revenues with the Cosmos Hub on day one.

The Stride blockchain would share 15% of each following category with the Cosmos Hub: liquid staking rewards, inflationary STRD staking rewards, transaction fees, and MEV revenue.

While the Stride blockchain does not currently collect transaction fees or MEV revenue, these will both be significant sources of revenue within roughly three months. Once turned on, transaction fees will target an average of five cents. Stride contributors are actively working with Skip to build an auction module for instant stToken unbonding. (See appendix for MEV details.)

The Stride blockchain is already growing faster than almost any other Cosmos chain, and it is expected that membership in the ATOM Economic Zone and adoption of ICS would further accelerate this growth. In other words, with the help of security and liquidity from Cosmos Hub, Stride’s existing revenues would likely increase in a substantial and sustained way, which would be very beneficial for Cosmos Hub.


Implementation Details

Soft opt-out

In order to make the economics of ICS more favorable for Cosmos Hub validators, validators in the bottom 5% of vote power in the Cosmos Hub validator set would be given the option to opt-out from validating for the Stride blockchain. This translates to roughly the bottom sixty-five validators.

Multisig

With regard to the 450,000 ATOM from Cosmos Hub, it will be handled by a multisig. But creating a new multisig won’t be necessary. As it happens, a trusted Cosmos Hub community multisig already exists, namely the ATOM Accelerator DAO. (See appendix for AA DAO details.)

After consultations between Stride contributors and the ATOM Accelerator members, the ATOM Accelerator members agreed to steward this 450K ATOM. This means that they would control it on behalf of Cosmos Hub governance. To be absolutely clear, the ATOM Accelerator would use these funds only as explicitly directed by Cosmos Hub governance. Insofar as it pertains to these funds, the ATOM Accelerator would not take direction, guidance, or advice from any entity except the Cosmos Hub, as expressed through onchain governance.

Liquidity provisioning

The current signaling proposal you are reading contains instructions that specify exactly what the ATOM Accelerator is to do when it receives the 450K ATOM. If this signaling proposal is approved by governance, a follow-up community spend proposal would be used to release the 450K ATOM to the ATOM Accelerator’s multisig address.

Here are the instructions they are to follow:

As soon as possible after receiving the funds, the ATOM Accelerator DAO will liquid stake 225K ATOM with Stride protocol, resulting in a certain amount of stATOM.

The ATOM Accelerator DAO will then provide the certain amount of stATOM it just minted along with 225K ATOM to a liquidity pool on Astroport’s Neutron deployment.

The pool will be the stableswap pool type, with the swap fee set at 0.05% and the amplification factor set at 3. (Astroport contributors have approved these parameters, and believe they are prudent.)

By providing this liquidity, the ATOM Accelerator DAO will receive a certain amount of LP tokens from Astroport. It will hold them, and not bond them in the Astroport generator contract.

This proposal does not specify a term for the 450K ATOM liquidity position. This is because it is a good idea to keep blockchain governance as simple as possible, and not enter into complicated agreements. To be clear, this proposal instructs the ATOM Accelerator DAO to provide funds as liquidity, but it does not bind Cosmos Hub from then moving the funds whenever it may wish. After the funds are in the liquidity pool, Cosmos Hub is completely free to pass a new signaling proposal instructing the ATOM Accelerator DAO to move the funds.

However, it is important to remember that even after potentially adopting ICS, Stride will always remain a sovereign chain. This proposal does not bind Stride to always share its revenue with the Cosmos Hub; if it wishes, Stride may forgo ICS and leave the ATOM Economic Zone. Hopefully, Cosmos Hub will indefinitely share its security and liquidity, and Stride will indefinitely share its revenue.

The future of the liquidity position

The ATOM Accelerator DAO members have agreed to steward the 450K ATOM liquidity position as described above until October 1st, 2023 at the latest. At that time, if Cosmos Hub has not passed a signaling proposal to establish a new solution for the liquidity position, then the ATOM Accelerator will begin the process of returning the funds to the Cosmos Hub community pool. This process would involve using the Stride app to unbond the stATOM side of the position, which would take approximately three weeks. Therefore, in this scenario the ATOM Accelerator would return the 450K ATOM in the liquidity position to the Cosmos Hub community pool no later than November 1st, 2023.

Hopefully Cosmos Hub governance will establish a new solution for the 450K ATOM liquidity position before that happens.

One potential solution is a new suite of secure smart contracts being jointly developed by Timewave and Stride. These smart contracts would allow a Cosmos chain to directly utilize its community pool funds onchain. (See appendix for Timewave details.) So a Cosmos chain could provide liquidity directly through governance, without using a multisig as an intermediary.

Once the Timewave contracts have been built, audited, and thoroughly tested - which will be in roughly four months - Cosmos Hub governance may or may not wish to instruct the ATOM Accelerator to transfer its 450K ATOM liquidity position to a Timewave smart contract controlled directly by Cosmos Hub.

Alternatively, Cosmos Hub governance may or may not wish to establish a new multisig to steward the liquidity position.

To clearly summarize, it is being proposed that the Cosmos Hub release 450K ATOM to the ATOM Accelerator DAO, to be provided as liquidity on Astroport Neutron according to the instructions above. Furthermore, on October 1st, 2023, if Cosmos Hub has not passed any new proposals regarding the funds, the ATOM Accelerator DAO would begin the process of returning the funds to the Cosmos Hub community pool, and that process would be completed by November 1st, 2023 at the latest.

Hopefully, Cosmos Hub will establish a new solution for the liquidity position before it is returned by the ATOM Accelerator, so that Cosmos Hub indefinitely shares its security and liquidity, and Stride indefinitely shares its revenue.


Final thoughts

The Stride blockchain is already live, has a validator set, has product market fit, generates significant revenue, has more IBC traffic than almost any other chain, and is growing rapidly.

Some may ask: if it’s already so successful on its own, why does Stride blockchain need to share 15% of all its revenue with the Cosmos Hub?

The answer is: if Stride shares its revenue with the Cosmos Hub, in return the Cosmos Hub will share both its ample security and liquidity. And this huge boost in security and liquidity would supercharge the Stride blockchain, accelerating and amplifying the success it has already achieved on its own.

Fundamentally, isn’t sharing and cooperation the core ethos of Cosmos? IBC means blockchains in the Cosmos ecosystem don’t have to be lonely islands - they can work together. The ATOM Economic Zone and ICS build on both the technology and philosophy of IBC.

By sharing resources, Cosmos Hub, Stride, and Neutron can form the most secure and most liquid zone in the Cosmos, creating mutual benefits for all three chains. Security and liquidity will attract users and developers, making this zone exciting, interesting, and hopefully very successful.

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

…Now we discuss! Please contribute to this important discourse with comments or questions (:

Keep in mind, in order to fully implement this proposal, it will take several onchain votes on both the Stride and Cosmos Hub blockchains. (You may wish to refer to the timeline section at the top of this post.)

Also, keep in mind that this is the first ever Cosmos gov prop forum post to be cross-posted on two different governance forums. Although there is considerable overlap, please try to keep discussion about Stride on the Stride governance forum, and discussion about Cosmos Hub on the Cosmos Hub governance forum.


Appendix / FAQ

In general, what are the risks and benefits of liquid staking?

With appropriate safety measures in place, liquid staking can be made very safe. The recently posted Cosmos Hub forum post to add the liquid staking module seeks to add these safety features to Cosmos Hub.

Specifically, the LSM proposal would cap the total amount of ATOM that can be liquid staked at 25% of total staked ATOM, and would introduce a requirement that validators who receive ATOM delegations from liquid staking providers self-bond a certain amount of their own ATOM. Additionally, in selecting which Cosmos Hub validators to delegate to, the Stride DAO distributes its ATOM across the active set, thereby increasing the Nakamoto Coefficient of the chain.

Liquid staking makes ATOM more useful, as it allows it to be used in onchain activities in an economically viable way. Examples are: use in trading on a DEX, use as collateral for a money market, use as backing for a CDP stablecoin, use as a currency for trading NFTs, and use as a constituent token in an index token. If using unstaked ATOM for these onchain activities, forfeited staking rewards prevent these use-cases from scaling. Only through liquid staking is it economically viable to use ATOM for these onchain activities. Thus, liquid staking increases the usefulness of ATOM, and thereby increases demand.

Considering the mitigation of liquid staking risks and the significant benefits that liquid staking provides, many prominent Cosmos thought leaders agree that liquid staking is good for Cosmos Hub.

Interchain liquid staking already exists today. By adopting interchain security, Stride can bolster its economics security and secure stATOM through alignment with the Cosmos Hub.

What specific, technical steps is Stride taking to maximize its security?

Security always has been, and always will be, Stride’s #1 priority. Specifically, Stride’s approach to security is

  • Be a minimal blockchain. No complex apps built on top of Stride that could compromise security. For example, Stride doesn’t support CosmWasm or permissionless app deployment.
  • On chain safety checks. The Stride protocol has safety checks built-in: IBC rate limiting (like Axelar and Osmosis to protect against bridge hacks), isolated zone failures and blockly invariant checks that protect against bugs like infinite mints.
  • Rigorous testing and launch process. Stride has hundreds of unit and integration tests that are run before launching new LSTs.
  • Extensive point-in-time auditing: Stride has already been audited 4 times (CertiK, Oak, Informal Systems 2x).
  • Continuous auditing. Stride receives quarterly audits from Informal Systems on an ongoing basis.

For a thorough explanation of Stride’s complete security strategy, refer to this Stride blog post.

What is Astroport?

Astroport is a high quality DEX supported by Delphi Labs. Since its original launch in December of 2021, the Astroport smart contracts have securely facilitated over $10 billion worth of trading volume. Astroport has received over ten audits by reputable security firms. All critical Astroport smart contracts are controlled directly by the Astroport DAO via onchain governance.

Stride contributors have consulted with Astroport contributors. Astroport contributors have agreed to provide technical guidance and support to the ATOM Accelerator, to ensure the accuracy of the onchain messages used to provide the 450K ATOM as liquidity. They have confirmed that Astroport will be live on Neutron’s mainnet in early May.

How will Stride’s MEV mechanism work?

Stride is building a novel MEV capture mechanism, which involves instant redemptions of stATOM for ATOM on Stride.

Here’s how Stride works today: stATOM/ATOM pairs trade around the interchain, often with stATOM trading at a slight discount (due to the liquidity premium). If stATOM is trading at $0.95, it can be redeemed for $1 of ATOM with Stride by burning the stATOM and waiting the unbonding period (3 weeks).

Instant redemptions will allow for stATOM to be redeemed instantly with Stride, allowing arbitrageurs to close the arbitrage loop more quickly - buying stATOM for $0.95 on a DEX, redeeming it for $1 of ATOM on Stride, selling for $1 of ATOM and pocketing the $0.05 all in a few blocks. Because the Stride protocol owns the instant redemption mechanism and there are only a limited amount of instant redemptions that can be processed each day, Stride can auction off the right for an arbitrageur to use the feature. It’s not yet known how much arbitrageurs will pay for this right, however on Ethereum searchers typically pay ~40% of their profits to miners. On Ethereum, MEV revenues to miners is in the hundreds of millions, with 99% of that coming from arbitrage.

What is the ATOM Accelerator DAO?

Created by Cosmos Hub proposal ninety-five, the ATOM Accelerator DAO was entrusted with 588,000 ATOM from the community pool. Its current mandate is to distribute that ATOM as grants to grow and develop the Cosmos Hub and the general Cosmos ecosystem. The ATOM Accelerator DAO is a multisig made up of trusted Cosmos Hub experts and community members. Here is its website.

What is Timewave?

Timewave is an organization founded by long-time Cosmonauts Sam Hart, Udit Vira, Max Einhorn, and Sacha Saint-Leger that builds solutions for long-term alignment across blockchains. The first protocol Timewave is creating is the Interchain Allocator, which will facilitate protocol-to-protocol dealmaking. The Timewave team has experience shipping in Cosmos; its members have worked on some of the largest projects in the space such as Skip, Hypha Coop, and the ICF funding program.

What are governors and how are they different from validators?

Governors do everything validators do except for validate blocks. Governors can educate the community, review code and run RPC/relayer infrastructure to attract delegations. Governors also vote on proposals on behalf of their delegators. Becoming a governor is permissionless, just like becoming a validator. From an end user’s point of view, governors are equivalent to validators; end users will delegate to governors they think most benefit the network through Keplr or another wallet.

20 Likes

I think there’s huge mutual benefit for stride and atom here. Stride has proven itself to be one of the most successful ibc chains in cosmos and 15% revenue share seems reasonable.

3 Likes

Overall, I’m 100% for this proposal. I’d like to get an idea of when transaction fees will be turned on. It should be something the Hub holds Stride’s governance accountable to meet.

I saw “three months” referenced in the proposal, but its not clear that’s when tx fees (and MEV revenue) fee switch will be turned on.

2 Likes

Great proposal and will support :handshake:

2 Likes

I think it’s safe to assume I can speak for everyone here. Make it 20% and you have yourselves a deal.

Thanks for this draft proposal @Stride, just a few questions to further clarify this proposal:

  • Neutron will be sharing 25% of their transaction fees and MEV revenue, how do you justify offering 15%?

  • The purpose of token inflation is to cause dilution to token holders so that they will be encouraged to stake to secure the network and avoid inflation while earning staking rewards. Inflation is variable so if security as measured by value staked is decreasing then inflation will raise to incentivize more staking. Now, in the case of Stride, like Neutron, the security would be provided by the Cosmos Hub, this is why inflation will be set to 0 in Neutron and there are no validators in Neutron, but the ‘Voting Vaults’ so token holders will get voting power without having to stake with validators. So, how does Stride justify keeping a high inflation since inflation will no longer be needed if security is provided by the Cosmos Hub? Also, how does Stride justify, if inflation is kept, sharing 15% of this inflation with the Cosmos Hub validators which will be covering the additional costs of the Stride consumer chain, while sharing most of the inflation with the current Stride validators which won’t have costs to secure Stride? Also, if there are no costs to run ‘governors’ or technical skills required to run nodes, this means all delegators are essentially governors too. Moreover, the active set limit of validators is due to the consensus engine, but if ‘governors’ are not validating blocks, then it is pointless to have a limited number of governors, or forcing delegators to stake with a limited number of governors to have voting power? Quoting from Neutron tokenomics: ‘Contrary to most Cosmos blockchain, obtaining voting power on Neutron does not require delegating tokens to a validator. Instead, users deposit NTRN (or a tokenized representation of NTRN) to a “Voting Vault,” a specific smart-contract designed to calculate voting power.’

  • Also, could you please provide more details about what you mean specifically by ‘15% of liquid staking rewards’, thanks

2 Likes

These funds would be used to facilitate trading between stATOM and ATOM, would not be spent in any way, would remain the property of Cosmos Hub, and would always remain under the control of Cosmos Hub.

Liquidity pool are extremely risky. How can it still be considered property of Cosmos Hub if anyone can empty it ?
Will those 450K ATOM be matched with same amount of $stATOM to keep a balance ?

For Neutron, this stATOM trading liquidity would likely increase trading volume, which would generate transaction fees and create MEV revenue. Also, this liquidity may help attract more app developers to Neutron.

Could someone rephrase or make clearer this point? Maybe I am missing something but I can’t make the connection between Neutron and Cosmos/Stride .

A governor does everything a validator does, except validate transactions.
STRD holders would be able to stake with a governor of their choosing. By doing so, STRD stakers would be compensated with inflationary STRD rewards and Stride protocol revenue, as they are now.

Following your blog post in feb 2023, it seemed that the generated fees with liquid staking were not yet going to STRD stakers due to a needed evolution of the code.
Has it been change already?



if we do get a mix of tokens (STRD for staking reward and network fees + stTokens for liquid staking fees and MEV), what is the estimated split for the $20K estimated in the blogpost?


I assumed for the following part that was Cosmos is getting is only STRD

You also mention in the same article the you generated after 5 months since mainnet $20.000 of fees ($0,29 per $STRD as of the blogpost) which would roughly be $100.000 at this time (at $1.42 lowest as of today) and represent around 70.000 $STRD.

That is 9.500 $STRD monthly when simply staking the 450K ATOM generates roughly 9,200 $ATOM monthly.

Supposing $STRD tokenomic is like a snake trying to bite its own tail, a never ending loop of speculation since it only has governance utility, how comes risking 450K ATOM in LP for a chain that might perform and risking the stability of our validators worth it ?



If the Soft opt-out ready? I thought ICS V1 was about security from all the validators.

While the Stride blockchain does not currently collect transaction fees or MEV revenue, these will both be significant sources of revenue within roughly three months. Once turned on, transaction fees will target an average of five cents. Stride contributors are actively working with Skip to build an auction module for instant stToken unbonding.

Wait a sec are you saying that since february nothing has changed but you planned to be a consumer chain?




Please help me clear my mind on this one :pray: Sorry if I sound stupid but it has become very hard for me to keep track of things lately, especially more recent chains.
Once again do not take any assumptions/bold statements as judgmental, they are here to be challenged so I can better apprehend my future vote via the governance :wink:

Maybe better not to assume to speak for everyone here…
Lot of questions to clear up first

2 Likes

For example:

  1. According to the STRD tokenomics, STRD staking rewards (I assume these are the inflationary staking rewards) are reduced by 50% every year on September 4th. That halvening schedule would remain in place, but in addition there would be a special 50% staking reward reduction when ICS was adopted.

How does this effect the STRD staking rewards in the offer?
Will those be: 15% x0.5x0.5= 3.75% staking rewards in couple of months just after joining? is it supposed to go to 0% because of ICS?
In that case the 15% of STRD inflationary staking rewards in the current offer are worth very little.

  1. “While the Stride blockchain does not currently collect transaction fees or MEV revenue, these will both be significant sources of revenue within roughly three months.”

Can you give some estimates of the significant source of revenue so that we can value the 15% offer better? Does SRTD intent to implement the collection of fees before or after joining? What risk is there if it fails, is it voted already YES by the SRTD community or can it also be voted NO? Will ICS still be implemented in that "NO"case when there are no fees to share? pls give the possible scenarios and concequences of those.

This is just what I came up with after 5 min researching. I could have misread or misjudged the STRD tokenomics. Pls explain further so that I can have better understanding of the benefits for both Cosmos and STRD.

Excited to see this proposal for Stride to hopefully become a fellow partner chain soon!

Think I may be able to add some context on a few questions raised by the community, but of course I’m not part of Stride and therefore will speak under their control and possible correction :slightly_smiling_face:

There a multiple ways to implement governance on a consumer chain. Neutron’s approach is not “standard” for a Cosmos SDK chain because it moves governance to the smart-contract layer and uses the admin module to grant the DAO the power to make changes to the network. Alternatives exists, including using the SDK’s democracy module.

I believe Stride is going for the SDK approach, hence the existence of “governors” which can be seen as representatives of their delegators. The proposal mentions that governors would “do everything a validator does except producing blocks” therefore we can assume that governors would provide additional services to the chain (perhaps running some of the infrastructure (full nodes, oracles, relayers?)).

The Cosmos Hub, through the AADAO and/or Timewave’s trustless solution, would own the LP tokens which represent the rights to the share of the liquidity provided by the Cosmos Hub. The ratio of tokens (ATOM/stATOM) is likely to evolve over time as stATOM auto-compounds (e.g. each stATOM token becomes worth more ATOM as staking rewards are claimed and restaked). Barring an exploit, “emptying” the pool should not be possible: to take a token, you need to deposit a corresponding value of the other token. But since both of these assets represent ATOM, impermanent loss should be minimal: even if the pool was somehow critically imbalanced, it would still either contain a lot of ATOM, or a lot of stATOM, which should be redeemable for ATOM.

I believe the proposal is to take half of the 450K ATOM and stake them through stride to mint stATOM. This stATOM would then be matched with the remaining ATOM and deposited to the pool. I think this approach makes sense.
For context, Liquid staking providers don’t control the assets they facilitate the staking of (e.g. ATOM), they only get some through the liquid staking fee, so it usually isn’t possible for them to provide large amounts of the corresponding derivative.

Stride is proposing to bootstrap ATOM/stATOM liquidity using Astroport on Neutron. This would certainly be beneficial to Neutron and Astroport, and imo it makes perfect sense that ATOM liquidity should sit within the ATOM Economic Zone.

The code is ready, yes. It is an amendment to Replicated Security, not a different iteration (ICS V2 is “opt-in security”). It’s been used in a few Neutron testnet already without hurdles (Rehearsal-1’s halt was unrelated to the soft opt-out). We’ll be conducting at least two more rehearsals with this feature (today and on Monday the 17th) so it should be fairly well tested by the time Stride’s proposal goes on-chain :slightly_smiling_face:

5 Likes

I support most of the part but why the liquidity pool only on Astroport’s Neutron?
we saw UST event on Osmosis.
why do we need to use only one app?
we shouldn’t use only Astroport, more like Osmosis,Wynd Crescent etc

Cause Neutron will use RS, so it makes sense to use a dex which is also secured by the HUB. This is literally 1 pool…

I support the proposal, this is beneficial for the HUB and STRD.

2 Likes

Excellent sir! Thanks


No live blockchain has ever adopted interchain security. Stride blockchain will potentially be the first.

How can Stride ever be the first one live since it is relying on Neutron’s Astroport ?


@lexa did a wonderful essay for Neutron with ‘detailed’ estimated costs etc… I deeply think need that kind of accessment for Stride.

  • With Neutron we 've seen that’s it is going to be pretty hard to match validators costs and the essay takes into account the appreciation of generated $ATOM rewards to validators to compensation the lack of revenue from Neutron which is IMO wrong and should not be considered at all in the math.

  • There are also hints about the opt-out which has also high risks of making small VP validators’ life even more difficult since they would not be part of ICS and the diversified tokens it brings.
    Delegators would only focus on validators taking part of ICS.

Once again that’s aknowledging the bull bias in the essay that does ‘only’ consider the best case scenario if $ATOM goes up to $13.xx ish.

Numbers do not add up in my mind as of right now for Stride, we lack clear view of everything and how a clear estimate of the revenues generated through staking, MEV, LS, T.fees.
Astroport is presented as a $10 billion Trading volume platform in 2 years when it seems 99% of it’s liquidity pools are illiquid and it seemed to have relied on LUNA which does not exist anymore.

With 1/3 of OSMOSIS market cap and 30times less trading volume daily I hardly see how this is a good bet.

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And you do the exact opposite with estimating the worst case scenario before we even know how it will play out.

I don’t get this type of argumentation at all. So what exactly is your best case scenario if the proposal doesn’t pass? Hey the validators can continue to make money, but the chain has no real use case and will die slowly? Damn what a great deal! Absolutely no one benefits

On the other hand you actually get a sustainable long term plan with RS.

Can people just think about what happens if the proposals don’t pass?

  1. Atom will dump, hey the MC and the token price will go down ->you make less money
  2. ATOM split, it is clear that we should split the community if RS doesn’t pass, people who want the classic ATOM can go with ATOM classic, people who want innovation etc. go with the new ATOM. The Ethereum split has shown which direction is the better one, the classic chain will become irrelevant and the classic guys won’t make any money
  3. If ATOM splits, the entire ecosystem will be hurt, your heavy bags in other chains will get hurt aswell.

There is absolutely no scenario where you win if the proposal doesn’t pass.

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Hey listen, I am trying to understand and get a bigger detailed view of what’s going on.

Once again do not take any assumptions/bold statements as judgmental, they are here to be challenged so I can better apprehend my future vote via the governance :wink:

Let me know if I should put a trigger warning on every post I do.

Thing is we are here to discuss and personally, to learn.
I am all in for Cosmos ecosystem to strive and be sustainable and I strongly believe in it’s future.

Just as I am trying to understand how this would be beneficial and trying to understand all the risk involved either is passes or not, you are coming up by saying there are higher risks if this does not passes.

I hardly see how this discussion is mutually beneficial and help people to vote in the maximum understanding of what is at stake.

Is it a reason not to try doing some risk assessment and have some form of criticial thinking when such an impactful proposal will be voted on the governance?

So please if you have any answers to my questions, feel free to share them.

Let me know if I should put a trigger warning on every post I do.

Don’t worry, I just write in a specific way, nothing personal or with an ill intention.

Thing is we are here to discuss and personally, to learn.
I am all in for Cosmos ecosystem to strive and be sustainable and I strongly believe in it’s future.
Just as I am trying to understand how this would be beneficial and trying to understand all the risk involved either is passes or not, you are coming up by saying there are higher risks if this does not passes.
I hardly see how this discussion is mutually beneficial and help people to vote in the maximum understanding of what is at stake.

Yes, and I want to know what is your best case scenario here if it doesn’t pass. How do you want to generate value for the HUB, how will it affect the price of ATOM etc. etc.

To give you a different example:
It’s like a discussion if we should use a Tesla car and you point out all the arguments why we shouldn’t use a Tesla car, but the alternative to not using the Tesla car is walking

I am totally in favor of STRIDE benefiting from ATOM’s economic security, and I agree with what has been said about the mutual benefits for ATOM and STRIDE with this relationship. The amounts seem reasonable to me and we must not forget that in any case, a good number of STRIDE holders are also ATOM holders.

On the other hand, I wonder about the use of the hub’s background to consolidate pools on DEXs such as astroport, osmosis or others. We are in the early stages of proposals for the use of ICS and one can easily imagine that asking community fund will become the norm if we start doing so.

Is it really good from a security point of view to have big amount of community pool ATOMs on DEX and do we have enough to consolidate pools everywhere in the futur? I’m asking but in the same time i’m not totally against the idea …

Stride is a pre-existing (live) blockchain that’s migrating from sovereign to consumer - definitely the first time that’s happening afaik! Neutron isn’t live yet.

The devil in the details, you are right. The first (already) LIVE blockchain to adopt ICS.

I should read twice

Edit: Making a token edit to this post, hoping it becomes visible.

In roughly three months, transaction fees and MEV capture should both be turned on.

Currently, transaction fees are set to zero for the sake of user experience. Since users only come to Stride blockchain for liquid staking, it would create friction if each user had to acquire a small amount of STRD. In roughly three months, users should be able to pay their transaction fee using any currency, like on Osmosis. Once this is possible, the average transaction fee will target five cents, which is much higher than most Cosmos chains.

With regard to MEV capture, Stride contributors are working with Skip to build an auction module, which would allow for instant unbonding of stTokens. Due to market forces, the instant unbonding fee would converge to the slight negative premium of swapping an stToken to its unstaked version on a DEX.

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