Updated genesis atoms recovery request proposal

Please note that the previous draft is posted here : Draft : Proposal to help fundraiser participants who lost their seed phrase

This thread is an updated version. We request the community to please continue giving feedback here .

DRAFT : :Proposal :
A humble request to the Community & Validators of the Cosmos Hub to help the fundraiser participants
(i) who did not receive their seed phrase (95% of requested recovery)
(ii) lost seed before genesis block was created(5% of requested recovery)

*Please note that this proposal shall not be implemented until the next breaking change is required.
*i.e : There will be no breaking change for the sole purpose of helping the recovery of funds.

*This proposal has a request from some fundraiser donation transactions requesting a recovery of the genesis atoms.
*This proposal is only for the genesis block accounts from the very first hub.
*This proposal does not set a precedent for future lost atoms(past genesis) or hacks.
*This proposal accounts for a 10% donation to the community governance fund.
*The donation amount will increase by 10% for each subsequent genesis atoms recovery proposal upto 50%, after which all future genesis recovery proposals will be required to donate 50% of the recovered atoms"

Section 1 : Bitcoin donors

Question1 : Who does this affect ?
Answer1 : It applies to

  1. Participants who contributed to the fundraiser using a Bitcoin transaction(s) , and
  2. have lost their 12 word seed, and
  3. have the ability to sign messages with the Bitcoin address(es) that were used to
    contribute to the fundraiser.

Question2 : What is this proposal ?
Answer2 : If a fundraiser participant satisfies all three pre-conditions from (Answer1), the validators will allow
for the lost atoms to be recovered to a cosmos address that is controlled by the fundraiser participant.

Question3 : May we have an example ?
Answer3 : Here is an example from the public Bitcoin blockchain.

    Explanation: 
    1. 35ty8iaSbWsj4YVkoHzs9pZMze6dapeoZ8 is the fundraiser contribution address. 
    
    2. 1B5NyLLi3AxwxcFdz1JnLhKvz8ZVbsn18g is the intermediary address that was provided to the participant.
    
    3. Once the participant transferred their funds to the intermediary address , then there was another
    transaction that sent the funds from the intermediary address to the fundraiser contribution address. 

    4. The Participant used 1 address in this case to fund the intermediary address. 
      17KQq2dkfaPTAJ9wK7K3SdXbppf8dXWZyZ. 
      (Note: There may be more than 1 contributing address in a bitcoin tx. Signing with any one will be adequete)
    
    5. The OP_RETURN value for the transaction from the intermediary address to the fundraiser contribution
      is fc0d53292d3559730aa55961969e54e4d783909f.
    
    6. Using this tool https://slowli.github.io/bech32-buffer/ we can determine the public cosmos address 
       (i)   Select the Data Tab on the left
       (ii)  Enter "cosmos" in the Tag field. 
       (iii) Enter OP_RETURN value "fc0d53292d3559730aa55961969e54e4d783909f" in the data field. 
       (iv)  Click the Encode Button 
       (v)   The public cosmos address "cosmos1lsx4x2fdx4vhxz49t9sed8j5untc8yyllmfs4m" is displayed. 
       (vi)  This public cosmos address can be verified to be a genesis atom holder on the block explorer


    7.If the Participant can sign any message that the Validators request them to with 
       a contributing addresses mentioned above in point (4) of (Answer3) then they 
      are eligible to have their atoms recovered and sent to an address under their control using the upgrade
      script in the next breaking change.

Section 2 : Ethereum Donors

Question1 : Who does this affect ?
Answer1 : It applies to

  1. Participants who contributed to the fundraiser using an Ethereum transaction, and
  2. have lost their 12 word seed, and
  3. have the ability to sign messages with the ethereum address that was used to contribute in
    the fundraiser

Question2 : What is this proposal ?
Answer2 : If a fundraiser participant satisfies all three pre-conditions from (Answer1), the validators will allow
for the lost atoms to be recovered to a cosmos address that is controlled by the fundraiser participant.

Question3 : May we have an example ?
Answer3. Here is an example from the public Ethereum Blockchain

    Explanation:
    1. 0xcf965cfe7c30323e9c9e41d4e398e2167506f764 is the fundraiser contribution smart contract. 
    
    2. The participant used 0xfaae1f6ce3d3108644c188555ae20e269f688c56 to donate eth to the contribution 
       smart contract address.
    
    3. In the Event log , under "Received" , the value of "recipient" which is of type "address" is 
       dbf49cdf23c9c0f2c01893cedc61e624a2997c58

    4. Using this tool https://slowli.github.io/bech32-buffer/ we can determine the public cosmos address
       (i)   Select the Data Tab on the left
       (ii)  Enter "cosmos" in the Tag field.
       (iii) Enter "recipient"  value "dbf49cdf23c9c0f2c01893cedc61e624a2997c58" in the data field.
       (iv)  Click the Encode Button
       (v)   The public cosmos address "cosmos1m06fehere8q09sqcj08dcc0xyj3fjlzc2x24y4" is displayed.
       (vi)  This public cosmos address can be verified to be a genesis atom holder on the block explorer

    5. If the participant can sign any message that the Validators request them to with the address in (2)
       then they are eligible to have their atoms recovered and sent to an address under their control using
       the upgrade script in the next breaking change.

Section 3 : Implementation Details

If this governance proposal is approved, the Gaia tool will implement modifying the state as part of the migrate command for the cosmos hub-4 upgrade.
The addresses for the specified accounts will be replaced as requested in the signed portion of this of this proposed.
These code changes will be included in the commit hash for the final upgrade proposal.

The bitcoin and ethereum contributors message and signatures are as below. The balances in the genesis address will go to 0.
The balances in the recovery address will be 90% of the balance in the genesis address and 10% will be donated to the community governance fund.
Note : The following information has been collected from forums and after contacting the individuals that were affected.


The 10% donations add up to  131859.276 atoms  which will be sent  to the community governance fund address :cosmos1jv65s3grqf6v6jl3dp4t6c9t9rk99cd88lyufl


{ "Message":"To this day, I can’t understand how I managed to loose my fundraiser seed. I followed Cosmos all along, even considered founding a company to become a Validator myself at one point. Logged on to vote for a validator when Mainnet launched, and … no seed. A painful moment.Now there’s hope thanks to this proposal and thanks to me still being able to sign the Bitcoin address I used for donating to the fundraiser. I’d be truly happy if my fellow Cosmonauts (alas, in spirit only at the moment), and the Validators would help us use the flexibility of Cosmos to recover our Genesis coins.", "Txid":"https://btc1.trezor.io/tx/331db408685ff221193e88e0d548493920ab785e2d62f3898ce807463afc11e3", "Contribution":"0.4 BTC", "Contributing Addresses":[ { "address":"1JsiFGmKZvr3iR4KejpMswmapCoB2oWsog" }, { "address":"1E1dPcQwyPBxYRUfYBt64BpZnvsgSam6SS" } ], "Genesis Cosmos Address":"cosmos17s3zkmz6d42rgvtxj3mxaqqtl6dtn4c75lwl4k", "Recovery Cosmos Address":"cosmos1hq5jdspaysmpt5cgg3w4g2u84th3qklr4e5jlq" }

IDM3egFNpQRboMrnxMAlIp2XAI0dylAEAysQeNTVLodBP3DU0aY/co0K5ngafdBPgIzGqxA2+ZH/c36tyB+PdWs=

Balanaces after proposal implementation : 
cosmos17s3zkmz6d42rgvtxj3mxaqqtl6dtn4c75lwl4k : 0 
cosmos1hq5jdspaysmpt5cgg3w4g2u84th3qklr4e5jlq : 4180.221



{ "Message":" I took a screenshot of the seed and due to my stupidity the only copy of the phrase. In Jan 2019 , I was installing Ubuntu on an external disk , by using my macbook as the medium, where I overrode the OS on my macbook itself instead of writing it to the external disk. The wipe replaced the entire OS and the Data Recovery company I gave it to were not able to retrieve the data. I lost atoms and some other crypto whose wallets were only on that macbook.", "Txid":"https://btc1.trezor.io/tx/ed6598ff038f1beaf1e1fe1c32aa50f770eaf16e6b7b86f45ed565837e546f05", "Contribution":"3 BTC", "Contributing Addresses":[ { "address":"16zuFhEMVTggK1rkMxwtsbBnSRH5NZ55nP" }, { "address":"1AC8nqvxTh8PHaMU5Fn8ZBhbodRasaRSRd" }, { "address":"1Gyi2AbGL2v5dbHogeezfi8om47c5q6EM8" } ], "Genesis Cosmos Address":"cosmos1fhejq5a3z8kehknrrjupt2wdl4l0wh9y2vayhr", "Recovery Cosmos Address":"cosmos12h5m3cuupza33psgzegjdvvsrngadjjmgnql34" }

IItkbg76ZjfFmMlyAmFAMz7CCt1FIw7VluWQbDvNhGdFZ6Y/FohkqlvXdv7aon8MGm6LbntbL3RxzR780PLYHY8=

Balanaces after proposal implementation : 
cosmos1fhejq5a3z8kehknrrjupt2wdl4l0wh9y2vayhr : 0
cosmos12h5m3cuupza33psgzegjdvvsrngadjjmgnql34 : 31406.121



{ "Message":"My investment partner Calvin  was going to handle the donation for us. He was up early and waiting for it to start. When the sale started, he informed me that a BTC address appeared on his screen and asked  me on the phone if he should go ahead and send the BTC there. He was never presented with a flow to obtain a seedphrase, or to confirm it. In prior ICOs you would just send Bitcoin to a wallet address, I assumed the atom sale was similarly designed so I let him know that we should just go ahead and send our BTC. He sent 22 BTC in two tx's", "Txid":"https://btc1.trezor.io/tx/f1033af3d9b7bc9e5675acf74940d982acda6848a5e0e9234ead0f6043f2fc65", "Contribution":"12 BTC", "Contributing Addresses":[ { "address":"1LXHU6XHzsCjWhuiLe24CRLLBwVQVeZimg" },{ "address":"1HsGtAmmHRA29g6UgikqX7hyPog9vaWyE9" } ], "Genesis Cosmos Address":"cosmos14qyqets0c94u9hjmvrm4n8s2v5pgnk9kjh93ay", "Recovery Cosmos Address":"cosmos12sptngkpvc3alssd9wcgr9sn5zh2rdg8gt27x0" }

H4+JhJH23leWopflTc5lIS4Wz089YWrUBCPGo9AwLktfUf5+Kpzo/nWS121/qyMxBF1G2eFUe+gwUhuRdZ4FWPA=

Balanaces after proposal implementation : 
cosmos14qyqets0c94u9hjmvrm4n8s2v5pgnk9kjh93ay : 0
cosmos12sptngkpvc3alssd9wcgr9sn5zh2rdg8gt27x0 : 125649.621



{ "Message":"My investment partner Calvin  was going to handle the donation for us. He was up early and waiting for it to start. When the sale started, he informed me that a BTC address appeared on his screen and asked  me on the phone if he should go ahead and send the BTC there. He was never presented with a flow to obtain a seedphrase, or to confirm it. In prior ICOs you would just send Bitcoin to a wallet address, I assumed the atom sale was similarly designed so I let him know that we should just go ahead and send our BTC. He sent 22 BTC in two tx's", "Txid":"https://btc1.trezor.io/tx/1a51fbb14d14ffb6270ddf551408069e22726ca2fbd8fd49ab5301f1157ff631", "Contribution":"10 BTC", "Contributing Addresses":[ { "address":"14VcHxn6YLAf1iBFVJtn3n8x3zf18ifybZ" }, { "address":"1L6V9E2LaP3eEQiWnzWyzGxzHUsRqVSxCQ" }, { "address":"13GKeu4BNbe1mfjDpwpVaZ2Hn34cHDrQPn" } ], "Genesis Cosmos Address":"cosmos138a2ulzndl7gezsd6symywvdpzes4awj9eypkr", "Recovery Cosmos Address":"cosmos1nc8s85wnax2jn2zch4cuyqumfqml53cumhwk82" }

IFb7u28IBBzn9UuXrOJnzO0kL8yItojE8X3GAcD+bk2JSXRHgsJLj0wYdXn9P8HqlDtl7jF5a1Bxu/f3Lxul+Xk=

Balanaces after proposal implementation : 
cosmos138a2ulzndl7gezsd6symywvdpzes4awj9eypkr : 0 
cosmos1nc8s85wnax2jn2zch4cuyqumfqml53cumhwk82 : 104706.621



{"address": "0x53ad4398f76a453a2d4dac4470f0b81cd1d72715",
 "msg": "{ \"Message\":\"I remember After I successfully sent my 16 Eth to the Cosmos fundraising address 3 years ago,I wrote down those seed words and had a picture.But when we could claim,I found my seed phase does not work,I've tried every means I could,but all failed.Honestly,I still don’t know the problem,maybe I wrote wrong letters,maybe something wrong with that webpage,or maybe I mixed something,only God knows.\", \"Txid\":\"https://etherscan.io/tx/0x42d0f860e1cd484f51647f34479843008b69d8f1158c94ad44ae30df33fdc080\", \"Contribution\":\"16 ETH\", \"Contributing Addresses\":[ { \"address\":\"0x53ad4398f76a453a2d4dac4470f0b81cd1d72715\" } ], \"Genesis Cosmos Address\":\"cosmos1m06fehere8q09sqcj08dcc0xyj3fjlzc2x24y4\", \"Recovery Cosmos Address\":\"cosmos17cg9xxpjnammafyqwfryr3hn32h6vjmh9x0y6j\" }", 
 "sig": "0xceed630f7e8d102b125a22d9ec06ced12a016f376b408b9832a63a9b4b5f352b4b67c94e9cfa35e4f2676f0f92643f8b56caf82f6c6eabd765b787d3f6af77fb1b", 
 "version": "2" 
}

Balanaces after proposal implementation : 
cosmos1m06fehere8q09sqcj08dcc0xyj3fjlzc2x24y4 : 0 
cosmos17cg9xxpjnammafyqwfryr3hn32h6vjmh9x0y6j : 6512.4



{
  "address": "0xff3fa81a59f31bd563d2554401438a1678d43593",
  "msg": "{\n   \"Message\":\"In April 2017, I participated in 24 ETH at Cosmos ico. In about two years when Cosmos was listed on exchange, the cell phone that had taken the seed phrase picture was destroyed. I tried to go to a data recovery company, but I couldn't recover the picture, so there was no way to get ATOM. However, I still have the private key and keystore file of the Ethereum wallet that participated in Cosmos ico.\",\n   \"Txid\":\"https://etherscan.io/tx/0xe2bb8c832c237b9ed898d4616649347e84931d56b8942cb409cafd6b01e1913d\",\n   \"Contribution\":\"24 ETH\",\n   \"Contributing Addresses\":[\n      {\n         \"address\":\"0xff3fa81a59f31bd563d2554401438a1678d43593\"\n      }\n   ],\n   \"Genesis Cosmos Address\":\"cosmos1gzuqry88awndjjsa5exzx4gwnmktcpdrxgdcf6\",\n   \"Recovery Cosmos Address\":\"cosmos1teux7wdnnq03r7r277yu762mq3cket5mg4xd3e\"\n}\n",
  "sig": "0x38de4018152de5f42d24b1150c04f5010dc3edce9a3436a57d318beae5e6955228a5e2c1255591c0324e4e9f1bbd13806e51bbdb11259c9e2aeddbdbc91bc11a1b",
  "version": "2"
}

Balanaces after proposal implementation : 
cosmos1gzuqry88awndjjsa5exzx4gwnmktcpdrxgdcf6 : 0 
cosmos1teux7wdnnq03r7r277yu762mq3cket5mg4xd3e : 9769.5


{
  "address": "0xb4dc54df11d2dcecd046e5c7318fb241a73ee370",
  "msg": "{ \"Message\":\"One of the early Ethereum alternatives is Cosmos. This is one of the reasons ICONOMI that is a collective of 1500 small donors , donated to  Cosmos fundraiser about  2,222 ETH similarly to numerous ICO where we participated. Due to the possible bug  in the code, we did not get the seed phrases. During the subscription process using the Brave browser, following all the steps the seed phrases simply did not show-up. Iconomi will be grateful to the community for the recovery of the atoms.\", \"Txid\":\"https://etherscan.io/tx/0x0c85c7cc2b66840357c3f293ae2010f0c79f2cc9f4b1220028afe780fdfdb426\", \"Contribution\":\"2222 ETH\", \"Contributing Addresses\":[ { \"address\":\"0xb4dc54df11d2dcecd046e5c7318fb241a73ee370\" } ], \"Genesis Cosmos Address\":\"cosmos1r3xvguuhwvlk34esxclvrh3g7ycmcqqc2kcn9v\", \"Recovery Cosmos Address\":\"cosmos18qjynuyrfja9qugzs4zjcs6dh0qyprqa2vwktp\" }",
  "sig": "0x4c29f9d74a070a8c475553597a1bd461137af0ba9120c183a1cfe3dc8c729f367dcf76ed9a384eea18c920b7ba7613ddb5632da9642fdb42cc183ff5ea74614e1b",
  "version": "2"
}

Balanaces after proposal implementation : 
cosmos1r3xvguuhwvlk34esxclvrh3g7ycmcqqc2kcn9v : 0 
cosmos18qjynuyrfja9qugzs4zjcs6dh0qyprqa2vwktp : 904509

Update :
We needed to add this information. Apart from the 7 transactions above , there were 2 other transactions who initially contacted us . They had sent their atoms from Poloniex .We tried to continue contacting them through telegram and the cosmos forum , but neither of them responded any further before we eventually posted the proposal on chain. Our assumption is that they found their seed and hence ceased communication with us. If this proposal passes and they contact us later they will be subject to subsequent recovery proposal.
The transactions were 1.5 and 0.2 BTC respectively.
Thier public addresses are cosmos1umc5pztqz8qrnjrvlkaka0esasgcwdem5hl6mj and cosmos1sxt8m2p2utvk6l4eujw9stw4v66vg6etr4dqq7.

4 Likes

I’ve been closely collaborating with this group.

Iqlusion intends to submit this proposal and implement the migrate command changes if this passes.

I really would like to see this business taken care of so Cosmos can move on to the next phase.

7 Likes

I was thinking what are the risks involved to such proposal getting passed?

For example how much cosmos network risks in exchange of being ‘nice’ or ‘the right thing to do’?

1 Like

As a long-term fan of the Cosmos project, I am heartbroken that “my” Atoms remain stuck in their genesis address. I’d like to thank @vee_em for setting up this recovery effort and @zaki_iqlusion for his continued support of our cause. Like for all the other participants in this effort, there is cryptographic proof for my ICO donation and its link to the Atoms that I can no longer access. I hope that the validators consider the uniqueness of this situation and the fact that there is little purpose in letting these early supporter coins remain stuck forever.

3 Likes

Sincerely thank @vee_em for this recovery effort.After I knew I could not claim my Atoms,I felt so depressed and nearly gave up,then one community member told me this Proposal.I’m so grateful and I see the difference between Cosmos and other projects that Cosmos cares its funderaisers and cares every single part of its ecosystem,this is my last hope and I’m really proud of Cosmos.Hope that all validators could support this Proposal,help Cosmos ecosystem,help us,thank you all.Together,we are on the COSMOS way of being great!

1 Like

At SG-1 we have discussed this internally and have had different viewpoints that we had to align to make a decision for this Proposal.

We have decided that our vote will go in favor of recovering the seed fundraisers.

We believe that the participants are most likely Cosmos supporter, with having participated in the fundraiser so early in the project. Releasing the funds is only fair, it will furthermore reactivate Cosmos participants that have cared for the project for many years. We expect clever investors and entrepreneurs to get back access to what belongs to them.

We believe this decision will empower the Ecosystem of Cosmos.

In order to be able to proof this, as the funds are being released via public votes, we hope that a list of cryptographic proofs on each address can be made public. This way we could have an in-depth analysis of the details which funds are being released and to which transaction this results. This would help us being more confident with our vote.

Regards,
your SG-1 team

3 Likes

This is a “benevolent power-demonstration“ which comes at a Credibility cost.

If at all, the atom should be returned to the ICF, and BTC/ETH funds to the original owners.

Well if I ever lose my ledger nano seed phase I should expect a written proposal from a trusted community member as well. Will ensure there are many of us beforehand. Thanks.

Hi kj311,

Thank you for the feedback.

The most important thing to note is that this proposal only accounts for the fundraiser genesis address. This proposal if passed does not account for lost/stolen private keys of addresses active after the genesis accounts and will not set a precedent for them.
Those kinds of cases will require a different proposal and the ethics and discussions around them will be completely different from this proposal

The phrases were lost even before the genesis block was created. I even contacted Ethan Buchman , the then president of interchain , however they were not willing to help. The only suggestion I got was to request a Validator vote driven proposal which I have been working on for the last year . A lot of time has been spent communicating to validators and requesting their help. So I implore you to please look at this with a kinder viewpoint.

There are at least two cases where the donators did not receive their phrases during the fundraiser process after the Btc / eth were sent . They are also included in this proposal and are still willing to donate 10% to the community governance fund.

This in no way will affect the credibility of the blockchain. All we are saying is that since the keys to the house were lost/not received even before it was even built we are sincerely hoping and praying that the validators and community help us and allow us into our homes .

I feel for you I really do. Very unfortunate situation here. If it was me I would try everything in my power as well and would be praying for empathy. However, I just cant bring myself to support the proposal as written. Losing your seed phrase is not a bug. Fortunately for you, I’m just one guy so maybe the majority feel different. This really sucks.

Question1 : Who does this affect ?
Answer1 : It applies to

  1. Participants who contributed to the fundraiser using a Bitcoin transaction(s) , and
  2. have lost their 12 word seed, and
  3. have the ability to sign messages with the Bitcoin address(es) that were used to
    contribute to the fundraiser.

This is reminiscent of when parity.io lost there Polkadot ICO funds. They did not get those funds back even though they tried.

Thank you again @kjn311, for your thoughtful response .
I completely agree with you that losing a donor seed phrase is not a bug.

I also understand that this might look familiar with the polkadot situation.However , with Cosmos , there is a chance to be significantly different when comparing ourselves to ethereum. The beautiful thing about the Cosmos governance structure is that it enables and empowers the Validators to assess a proposal and take their decision. And that is why it is no surprise that we are already a big leap forward when compared to any other blockchain out there.

That is also why I am probably more hopeful than the Parity would have been when it comes to the Polkadot recovering its eth.

I would go one step further to suggest that if a polkadot type situation occurs in the Cosmos ecosystem , then at the least there is a shot to solve the issue with the help of a proposal and Validators voting for it.

Generally a big fan of the spirit of the proposal and excited to see it finally going through.

One piece of technical detail, is that part of the process needs to be to guarantee that the genesis account claimed as lost has not made any transactions in the history of the Cosmos Hub (proving that there is in fact a key holder of the account).

The donation amount will increase by 10% for each subsequent genesis atoms recovery proposal upto 50%, after which all future genesis recovery proposals will be required to donate 50% of the recovered atoms

I don’t quite understand what this means? I think this genesis recovery process should be a one time thing.

Is there a way to guarantee that everyone who may have lost genesis Atoms has had an opportunity to submit a claim in this proposal? As well as guarantee anyone who may want to submit a claim cannot be censored?

Perhaps we can split this into two governance proposals. The first with proposal of doing the fund recovery process. Anyone who wants to make a claim, can submit a claim in the memo field of a vote tx. Then a second governance proposal can be made confirming the exact transfers generated from the claims from memos.

Thoughts?

1 Like

I think it would be undesirable to open this particular recovery process up to more participants.

This group has been actively engaged with governance for more than a year in hopes of regaining the ability to participate in the network.

We made substantial efforts to contact anyone else that we were aware of.

The window of opportunity to do this in the stargate migration is closing quickly.

1 Like

Why?

What were the efforts made? I just want to make sure there was a fair opportunity for everyone who may have been affected by lost fundraiser keys to participate in the recovery, which as I mentioned, I believe should be a one-time operation, and thus should make best efforts to be as inclusive as possible.

Hi! Great question. From what I can see, there are two major risks. One is that a false claim could be made.

I may be incorrect about this. If a claimant can prove that they control the key that made the original fundraiser contribution, there’s a small possibility that the contribution key was compromised and the rightful owner could be different from the claimant.

For example, say I contributed 100 ETH in the fundraiser and have not moved my ATOMs yet. My Ethereum private key is discovered by someone else, but that’s okay because I don’t use it anymore. Now someone could use my old Ethereum key to make a claim on my ATOMs without my knowing it. This risk seems small to me.

I think the other major risk here is that of trust in the reliability of the Cosmos Hub. Most crypto users expect that funds only move under human control if the transaction is authorized with a signature created via private key. The process of ganting ownership to the claimants would be manual (ie arbitrary) and would violate those expectations.

In this case, I’m guessing that the solution would be to change the state of the ledger manually so that certain Cosmos Hub addresses from the fundraiser will be reduced from (millions of $ worth of ATOM?) to zero, and new addresses under the control of claimants will be changed to have the respective balances from the zeroed fundraiser accounts.

These changes would be considered by most to be arbitrary, since essentially the decision would be made by the validator set (but also influenced by the delegators), rather than the protocol itself.

Some may see this as a feature where the stakeholders can make right something that went wrong. Others may see this as breaking a fundamental assumption that only your private keys control your crypto assets.

HI @Gavin ,

I agree the risk of the false claim is small because anyone who wanted to move their atoms in lieu of the fear of a false claim being made would have already moved their atoms from their genesis wallets.

To address your second point .
This was an issue w.r.t to the fundraising genesis wallets only and as I mentioned in the response to another community member in this post.

This proposal if passed will not be a precedent to arbitrarily move atoms between addresses.

I think we have been in communication in the past w.r.t to this very topic , but I dropped the ball for a bit before I fell sick with health issues followed by personal issues. Please do reach out to me if there is anything else I could help with to alleviate any more concerns.

1 Like

Hi Vee! Glad to see that you’re championing this again.

I should clarify that my comment is in reply to this question here, which I think went unaddressed: Updated genesis atoms recovery request proposal

Ah , Understood . Thank you for Clarifying :slight_smile:

Hi Gavin,

many thanks for addressing my question. Very good points. So the main question is whether stakeholders view arbitrary access to wallet as a feature that is useful or as a limitation of the network. Probably community will be split towards it. Validators likely to act based on their personal interests to avoid risks as there is likely little to gain from this vote personally.

Hi @btcgene . Thank you for your response .
I would redirect you to my response to Gavin’s concerns.

To put it as succinctly as possible .
This proposal does not set a precedent for recovering lost/stolen atoms of addresses activated past genesis

"w.r.t to your opinion that Validators have little to gain" , I would like to say that I do not believe that Validators are in the ecosystem only for the gains . They are in this because they believe in the governance structure and know that they can shape the direction of this ecosystem. This opinion may be perceived as having no interest in allowing early contributors to participate in the ecosystem but rather interested in keeping circulating atoms low. Which is counter intuitive given that the atoms by design are meant to inflate (minimally) at 7% every year.