Funding Hydro development & integrations in 2025

Note: It was decided to wait for yesterday’s Skip announcement before posting this draft so that the community would be aware of next year’s plans. The discussion period will be shorter than usual to ensure that the results of the on-chain vote are available by 1-Jan-2025 and product development can proceed without pause. The Hydro team will respond to feedback as diligently as possible on this forum post and in the Hydro Telegram group. We will also organize a couple of Twitter spaces, and calls can already be booked with the Hydro team here. Edit 16-Dec: Following community feedback, the on-chain proposal is postponed to early January.

In November 2023, the Cosmos Hub funded Informal Systems for 2024. The Informal Hub team eliminated the Hub’s technical debt and shipped two products:

  • Forge as a way to permissionlessly launch a chain, solving all the pain points of the past versions of ICS and making it possible for the Hub’s validators to run it in a few clicks.
  • Hydro as the first decentralized market-maker. Hydro allocates liquidity through sequential auction rounds in which projects attract user votes with tributes

Through this process, it became obvious that the Hub needed consolidated leadership to realize its full potential and Informal recruited one of the best teams in the Interchain to take up the product ownership role. Although Informal’s Hub 2024 mandate officially ends on 31-Dec, with the recent success of the first pilot rounds, the Skip team asked the Hydro team to keep developing the product in 2025.

Since the Informal Hub team is under budget in Q4 2024 (see the breakdown in the Funding & reporting section - the Informal Hub team was also under budget in Q1 & Q2 2024 and returned these funds to the community pool), this proposal requests community approval to fund Hydro product development and some Hydro-focused grants for the first two quarters of 2025 by giving Informal a green light to re-assign the excess Q4 2024 budget to Hydro and approving the transfer of an additional 120,000 ATOM from the community pool

In addition, since we believe that Hydro could be partly self-funded in the second half of 2025, we’re requesting community approval to send Hydro’s PoL profits to an account collectively owned by Hydro’s voters but placed under the control of the Cosmos Hub community (see the Hydro Treasury section for details).

Note: This draft assumes ATOM at $10 - the proposal will be updated to match the actual price at the time it goes on-chain.

Hydro Roadmap

The Hydro litepaper was published in late May-2024 and the inaugural pilot round started on 6-Nov. To date, 10 projects have submitted bids and 8 third-party teams have also expressed interest in building DeFi apps on top of Hydro. The round 1 cap was reached within 24 hours and the round 2 cap in less than 4 minutes.

Before 2025, the Hydro team will also ship several major updates, including:

  • Custom deployment duration: Projects can set their own export duration and voters can lock-in a fixed APR over several rounds without having to vote every time.
  • Custom export floor: Projects can set a minimum PoL target. If their bid doesn’t get sufficient support to reach that target, their tribute is refunded.
  • Metrics page: The position size, status and performance of each PoL deployment is tracked and displayed on a dedicated page.
  • Rewards page: Voters can see their tribute rewards and personalized APRs (current & past rounds). They can claim and automatically swap tokens to ATOM.
  • Airdrops page: Voters can see a list of upcoming airdrops for Hydro participants, and projects can easily access relevant data.

The custom deployment duration and custom export floor are critical for making Hydro more widely useful to larger projects. However, Hydro is still far from a finished product.

  • It relies on a committee for risk management, whitelisting & performance monitoring.
  • The incentive alignment between voters & the community pool is relatively weak.

The goal is to make Hydro a fully permissionless, automated, risk-minimizing & profit-maximizing system for efficient treasury management on a public blockchain. Hydro should be able to operate like Aave, Compound, or Curve: risk parameter approvals via governance votes, allocations via the auction system, and automatic deployments.

Over the first 6 months of 2025, the Hydro team plans to work on the following features:

Feature Description
Third-party integrations Vote optimizers, automated hedging contracts, insurance premium or escrow contracts can be built on top of Hydro to enable new cases
Valence integration The Hub retains ownership of Hydro’s liquidity, making the committee less of a bottleneck and increasing the overall security & efficiency of the system.
Token integrations Hydro can be used for the deployment of new tokens ( NTRN, TIA, stables etc.), and projects can submit atomic bids to get both sides of an LP pair
Rev-sharing & penalities Voters get a portion of the PoL yield. A portion of the users’ locked capital gets slashed when they vote for a project that underperforms.
Hydro governance Hydro users can vote on governance proposals to define all of the protocol parameters and elect or remove committee members
Staking interface Hydro users can stake, delegate, re-delegate, claim, swap and compound rewards directly from the Hydro interface
“Just-in-time” liquidity Hydro provides insurance against liquidity crunches by ensuring that buckets can be deployed quickly to stabilize a position or market.

Note that this is a working backlog that will be re-prioritized based on market signals and community feedback.

Budget

Product development

The Informal Hub team in 2024 consisted of 14 people, split between Forge, Hydro and Hub maintenance. For 2025, we believe it is possible to achieve our Hydro objectives with a reduced team of 6 Full-Time Equivalent staff: 1 Project Lead, 1 Technical Lead, 1 Product Lead, 2 Developers & 1 Growth Lead. We will use the same per-head total rate averages of $325K per year, which includes approximately $225K in salary (and relevant overhead such as employer taxes and benefits) and a standard margin to pay for operational expenses like legal, HR, finance as well as some profit buffer for the company. Like last year, these rates are aligned with the mid-point of market software development rates ($110-$220/hour)

The entire overhead margin will be paid out in ATOMs for alignment purposes. In addition, our proposal will not include any performance bonus (Informal & Hypha 2024 proposal did). See the FAQ section for more details on these decisions.

Hydro grants

To become a fully permissionless & automated protocol, Hydro requires several DeFi & security integrations. While Hydro’s core team itself could develop all the necessary features over time, a better option to achieve this goal as fast and cost-efficiently as possible is to enable other third-party teams to build products on top of Hydro.

Category Budget
Vote optimizers Vote aggregators are smart contract applications that abstract the complexities of voting away from users, give them the benefits of long-term locking, provide them with a tradable liquid derivative, compete for maximal returns, etc.
Delta-neutral deployments Automated strategies are required to avoid exposing the Hub deployments to impermanent loss. Hydro’s bidders can implement a delta-neutral strategy with a real-time adjustment mechanism via smart contracts, insurance, or over-collateralization
Permissionless deployments The Hub retains direct ownership of the liquidity, progressively reducing the need for the Hydro committee to manually deploy funds, enabling shorter and more competitive rounds, and increasing the system’s overall security.
Security Third-party audits for the features developed by the Hydro product team. Security monitoring, threat detection system, and bug-bountry program for finding and reporting vulnerabilities on PoL venues.

Over the past couple of weeks, the Hydro team has been helping several Cosmos projects submit well-scoped grant proposals to the AADAO so their applications can be processed before the end of the program. However, new teams (or existing grantees) are likely to step forward with other innovative ideas in the coming months and beyond.

For that reason, the Hydro team is requesting a $350,000 budget to manage an ecosystem fund to support some of the initiatives listed in the table below (each item is a rough estimate and the final distribution may look significantly different). All outgoing transactions will be managed on-chain via DAO DAO and labelled for transparency.

Initiative Budget Amount
Hydro committee ~$90/h for six members for 6 months, 5-10h per member per month (adjusted up or down based on individual time commitment) $40,000
Vote optimizers ~$30,000 for smart contract development or audits for two separate teams (adjusted up or down based on a statement of work) $60,000
Automated hedging ~$30,000 for the smart contract development or audits (adjusted up or down based on a statement of work) $30,000
Insurance premiums ~$30,000 for the smart contract development or audits (adjusted up or down based on a statement of work) $30,000
Valence integration ~ $40,000 for a first integration of Valence into Hydro (adjusted up or down based on the exact scope) $50,000
Data services ~ $20,000 for the tracking of PoL deployments & rewards (adjusted up or down based on development & indexing costs) $20,000
Security audits ~ $25,000 per audit & 1 per quarter from a reputable firm (adjusted up or down based on the exact scope) $50,000
Bug bounties ~ $10,000 per bug submission for up to five security issues during a six-month period $50,000
Miscellaneous ~ $15,000 for IBC relaying, security monitoring, infrastructure costs, software licenses and other miscellaneous expenses $20,000

Note that the Hydro team has also submitted a $350,000 grant application to the AADAO ; if the AADAO approves it (partly or fully), it’ll be discounted accordingly from the proposed budget.

Hydro treasury

The rewards generated by the Hub’s PoL deployments are currently in the custody of the Hydro committee. The Hydro product team is planning to build out a governance module and equip it with the ability to hold and manage funds.

The purpose of the Hydro treasury is two-fold:

  • Ability to deploy the rewards via Hydro
  • Ability to fund development teams

The Hydro treasury transforms Hydro into a self-funded project and may eliminate the need for more community pool requests to the Hub community pool. The treasury would remain under the control of the Cosmos Hub via two mechanisms to be built into Hydro governance:

  • The ability for the Hub governance to veto any Hydro prop via an expedited proposal
  • The ability for the Hub governance to send the Hydro treasury to the community pool

If this proposal passes, the Hydro product team will transfer pre-Hydro and pilot rounds PoL rewards to a new public DAO on DAO DAO and start building the Hydro governance module and treasury. The DAO will initially be controlled by the product team and ownership will be transferred to Hydro’s governance as soon as it is technically possible.

Funding & reporting

Proposal request

In its 2024 funding proposal, the Informal Hub team planned for a total team of 14 full-time equivalents (FTE) per quarter:

  • In Q1 & Q2, the team was under budget and returned funds to the community pool
  • In Q3, the team worked at full capacity to ship Forge & Hydro.
  • In Q4, the team was under budget again, using only 10 FTE resources.

The excess budget represented by 4 FTE in Q4 is $325,000, and we suggest assigning this funding to cover Hydro product development in the first half of 2025. Assuming 1 ATOM is worth $10, the breakdown is the following:

Budget line In USD In ATOM
Product development $975,000 97,500
Hydro grants $350,000 35,000
Reassigned 2024 funding $-325,000 -32,500
Refundable 20% buffer $200,000 20,000
Total $1,200,000 120,000

The funding request amount includes a 20% buffer to hedge against price movement:

  • If the ATOM price is exactly the same at the time of the Q1 & Q2 transfers as when the prop went up for voting, the entire 20% buffer will be sent to the Hydro treasury
  • If the ATOM price decreases less than 20%, the buffer will be used to cover the difference. If the ATOM price increases, the extra will be sent to the Hydro treasury.
  • If the ATOM price goes down more than 20%, the Hydro product team will request the difference to be covered by the Hydro treasury (see the description below)

Sequence of events

If this proposal is approved, the funds will be transferred to a DAO DAO instance on the Cosmos Hub (the Hydro Funding DAO) with the following signers:

  • Maghnus Mareneck from Skip
  • Michael Greenberg from Allnodes
  • Takumi from Game
  • Vadim from Everstake
  • Marius Abalaru from Dokia Capital
  • Zafercan Cakir from Stake&Relax

Funding will be distributed on the following schedule:

On 1-Jan The total ask (including buffer) of 120,000 ATOMs is transferred from the community pool to the Funding DAO
Before 3-Jan The Funding DAO converts (OTC deal or swap) 70,000 ATOM into 700,000 USDC and reserves 50,000 ATOM
Before 4-Jan The Funding DAO sends 350,000 USDC & $150,000 in ATOM to the Hydro product team
On 1-Apr The Funding DAO sends 350,000 USDC & $150,000 in ATOM to the Hydro product team and the remainder to the Hydro treasury

A new separate entity will receive the distributed funds. This new company (name & domicile to be determined) will be created specifically for Hydro product development. As a company, Informal Systems will be focusing on engineering services, security audits and public good development for devcos and foundations with clear service agreements.

Undistributed funds can be clawed back at any point via a proposal submitted by any community member using the tooling introduced by Prop 972.

Reporting

A quarterly progress report will be shared on the Cosmos Hub forum by the Hydro development team, using the same format as the reporting done by the Informal Hub team (see Q1 2024, Q2 2024, Q3 2024)

Hub-alignment

Hydro aims to become an example of a sustainable ATOM-first project. For as long as the Hub chooses to support its product development:

ATOM as value-accrual token: While new integrations will bring liquidity buckets for other tokens (USDT, USDC, TIA, NTRN etc.), they will primarily be allocated by ATOM stakers. This will be the case for the USDC & NTRN, which are already available in the Cosmos Hub community pool. For a few other tokens, voting rights may be a requirement to seed a new bucket, but this will likely be for a limited number of projects.

ATOM as export token: Cosmos projects already express more interest in ATOM deployments than any other token. Demand is likely to increase further after the Skip team takes over as product owner. Hydro will leverage the strongest token in the ecosystem and create new distribution channels to make ATOM the dominant Interchain capital asset.

ATOM as governance token: Participants will be able to use their Hydro-locked ATOMs to vote on the protocol parameters, including revenue-sharing, whitelist management, committee members, caps, grants allocations etc. Once the Skip team sets a clear maintenance & security policy for CosmWasm on the Hub, the Hydro team is also planning to move the protocol to the Hub.

A new source of revenues: Once Hydro’s revenues are sufficient to cover product development and eliminate the need for more funding requests, a portion of Hydro’s profits will be sent back to the Hub community pool, making Hydro net profitable for the Hub (given the current size of PoL deployments, this is more likely to happen in 2026 than in 2025)

A technical partner for Skip: The Hydro engineering team has previously worked on the LSM integration and an LSM removal plan and will support Skip if they decide to implement all or some of these ideas. The Hydro team will also continue to support IBC expansion beyond Cosmos (starting with Starknet) so ATOM can be exported everywhere.

Governance votes

Yes: You approve the allocation of Informal Systems excess Q4 budget and an additional 120,000 ATOM from the community pool towards Hydro product development and integrations, and you approve the transfer of Hydro’s PoL rewards to the Hydro Treasury.

No: You do not approve the suggested budget allocation and / or the transfer of Hydro’s PoL rewards to the Hydro Treasury.

No with Veto: You indicate that this proposal either (1) is deemed to be spam, i.e., irrelevant to Cosmos Hub, (2) disproportionately infringes on minority interests, or (3) violates or encourages violation of the rules of engagement as currently set out by Cosmos Hub

Abstain: You wish to contribute to the quorum, but you decline to vote either for or against

FAQ

Could Skip fund Hydro directly?

Skip will build revenue capture for ATOM by leveraging the Cosmos stack. They will use the ICF budget to bring back core development teams under a single organization with unified leadership. We’re very enthusiastic about that vision. Hydro is pursuing a complementary but distinct goal of exporting ATOM over the Interchain and making it the best capital asset. Both Skip & Hydro’s team believe that Hydro should be an example of an autonomous, self-funded ATOM-aligned project that inspires other teams to pursue a similar model in the future.

Will Hydro have a token?

It is the Hydro team’s unambiguous preference not to launch any token, and to use ATOM for value-capture & governance. As long as the Cosmos Hub chooses to support Hydro’s product development (initially via community grant, then indirectly through the Hydro treasury), there is no reason to divert any energy away from product building. In the event that the Hub decides to withdraw support for Hydro and a token becomes necessary, a significant share of the supply will be allocated to the ATOM community.

What’s the Hydro team’s upside?

It was decided to exclude upside from this proposal. This community pool funding gives the team a six-month runway to show that there is a clear path to turning Hydro into a sustainable, self-funded project. If Hydro can generate meaningful profits, the team is hopeful that the Hub community & Hydro participants will support using part of the treasury to add a long-term incentive mechanism for the product team.

Why did you remove the bonus?

Informal & Hypha 2024 proposal had a 100K ATOM performance bonus awarded quarterly based on a performance assessment by an Oversight Committee. However, the committee grading process did not work well. The goal over our upcoming six-month mandate is to build the foundation for an objective, data-driven performance system.

Will Hydro grants work like the AADAO?

Hydro grants will be a small-scale, Hydro-focused version of the AADAO operating with RFPs instead of open applications. If the program shows promises, the Hydro team may consider putting up a separate Cosmos Hub governance proposal to repurpose the AADAO Guernsey trust, website and other assets for the Hydro grant program.

What’s Hydro’s plan for the LSM?

The LSM is complex and relies on a forked Cosmos SDK. In the context of Hydro, the LSM limits governance participation by making users who tokenize their ATOM lose voting rights. The Hydro team is advocating for a phased removal and has suggested a replacement solution that would satisfy our use case.

20 Likes

The Hydro team has asked me to share my thoughts on this proposal (as an FYI, I will share my thoughts on any proposal if the community asks me to).

Based on my cursory familiarity with Hydro so far, it seems to be highly positive for unlocking ATOM liquidity for the rest of the ecosystem. I was highly impressed that they were able to fill their first and second caps so quickly (the latter in 4 minutes!). If the community is excited to support this protocol as per this proposal, I will make sure we at Interchain Inc. work closely with the Hydro team to have Hydro be a safe and yield-efficient use for community members’ ATOM.

My general opinion in evaluating all the products on the Hub is: if it’s working, let’s keep it. I think we should encourage experimentation of all forms. Hydro seems to be working, and I appreciate that the Hydro team will fully separate into its own team to double-down on the product and separate from the rest of Informal’s functions. I also appreciate Hydro’s clear language around an exclusive Cosmos Hub focus, given they are asking for Cosmos Hub funding.

In the future, my hope is the Hub can be an exciting enough ecosystem and opportunity for teams to build here and fund themselves without community funding. But where the community graciously decides to step in, I view it as my responsibility to pay extra attention and time to make sure the funds are used well and the product is excellent.

16 Likes

Hydro represents a promising opportunity for the Cosmos Hub, both as an innovative project and a tool to strengthen the network. Here’s why its development deserves attention:

Hydro’s mechanism of tribute ATOM stakes encourages participants to stake their ATOMs as a prerequisite for engaging with the protocol. This directly increases the amount of staked ATOMs, leading to a more secure and decentralized network by reducing the risk of concentrated control or malicious activity.

By creating a compelling use case tied to staking, Hydro has the potential to attract new users to Cosmos Hub. This not only grows the ecosystem but also introduces new stakeholders who are invested in the network’s success. As more people participate in staking, the overall health and security of the ecosystem improve.

The higher the staking ratio of ATOMs, the more resistant the network becomes to attacks. Hydro’s model aligns with the principle of security through participation, where increasing the number of active validators and delegators adds layers of protection to the chain.

Cosmos is built on the idea of interconnection and decentralized sovereignty. Hydro, by paying tribute through ATOM stakes, reinforces ATOM as the economic and security backbone of the ecosystem. This aligns with Cosmos’ long-term goal of making ATOM the go-to token for securing cross-chain transactions and economic activity.

Hydro creates opportunities for projects within the Cosmos ecosystem to thrive by:

  • Access to Liquidity and Capital
    Projects can receive tribute in the form of staked ATOMs, providing a stable and reliable source of funding while maintaining alignment with the Hub’s security goals.
  • Collaborative Environment
    Hydro fosters connections between projects and participants, encouraging collaboration and partnerships that lead to innovation.
  • Stronger Community Engagement
    Projects leveraging Hydro can attract a more engaged user base, as participants are incentivized to contribute to the ecosystem through staking and active involvement.

These benefits make Hydro a valuable tool for nurturing growth and innovation across the Cosmos ecosystem.

Developing Hydro is not just about advancing a single project - it’s a step toward greater network security, wider adoption of staking, and a stronger ATOM economy. These benefits ripple out across the Cosmos ecosystem, making Hydro a valuable contributor to the Hub’s long-term sustainability and growth.

8 Likes

Like Quasar Said
quote
Hydro’s mechanism of tribute ATOM stakes encourages participants to stake their ATOMs as a prerequisite for engaging with the protocol. This directly increases the amount of staked ATOMs, leading to a more secure and decentralized network by reducing the risk of concentrated control or malicious activity.
End quote

Fully agree with Quasar and the proposal general. Hydro is a killer app on cosmos hub and i can only wish we had more apps of such.

Congrats to everyone making Hydro possible and i wish you become a self funding profitable app. Untill then, agent.kwosh supports the prop.

6 Likes

@Thyborg thanks for sharing the above. Please response to questions in bold

Why?

To achieve proposal vote outcome by January 1, 2025:

  • On-chain proposal must go live ~December 16th
  • Forum discussion would be limited to 5 days
  • This is substantially shorter than our standard 14-day discussion period

Additionally:

  • The voting period spans the holiday season (December 24 - January 1)
  • Community engagement is typically minimal during this time
  • Even the Hydro team likely has reduced activity during holidays

Given the above –

What specific development or “product work” requires Jan 1st clarity?

How would a Jan 15th decision materially impact product progress, especially during a traditionally quiet period when contributors aren’t working anyway?

So, if I understand the proposal correctly, your budget assigns a $100K overhead cost per person/FTE. Sounds excessive.

  • “Margin” represents a ~44% markup on $225k salary
  • For a 6-person team, this amounts to $600K in “margin” costs alone

Given that:
Informal is an established company with

  • Existing operational infrastructure
  • Revenue streams
  • Substantial grant support from ICF
  • Private investment

Why should the Hub pay Informal’s tax bill and other operating costs?

Imo, the cp should pay for direct project costs (% FTE salaries, project-specific expenses) – not costs related to your operating structure. For this reason, #839 was a bad funding precedent – bc the hub pays a non trivial Informal “tax” whenever Informal funding is involved.

You say operational costs (legal, HR, finance) are covered by the “overhead margin.”
Yet, you also also say: “entire overhead margin will be paid out in ATOMs.”

This doesn’t make sense.

If your “margin” actually covers overhead costs (e.g., employer taxes, employee benefits, legal, HR, finance) these are typically paid in fiat or stables.

  • Isn’t this just creating an extra conversion step since these operational costs must ultimately be paid in fiat?
  • Why introduce ATOM/USD volatility risk for regular operating expenses?

How does paying the “margin” in ATOM “create alignment” when salaries are paid in fiat/USDC?

Best practice STRONGLY suggests that on-chain proposals seeking funding should ONLY proceed after:

  • The receiving entity is properly formed and KNOWN
  • Legal structure/wrapper is finalized
  • Domicile (and jurisdiction) is established

Submitting a $1.2 million funding request without a properly formed entity creates exposure and direct liability for your msig signers, and I don’t think the signers (@Mag, @Allnodes, GAME, @Vadim_Everstake, Dokia, and @StakeandRelax) signed up for that. At this stage of decentralized governance and funding – we all should know not to do this.

1 Like

AADAO Grants committee should have a decision by 12/20.

In view of all of the above, the proposal and the community can jointly benefit from this funding request going on-chain at the end of this month, rather than in 4 days.

Critical prerequisites:

  • Receive AADAO’s funding decision (~December 20th)
  • Determine legal entity seeking and receiving funds
  • Minimize msig signers’ exposure and risk
1 Like

Lots of questions, and I’m sure you’ll have follow-ups for each of my answers. I suggest you join the Twitter space we’ll organize early next week, we’ll address them there.

Can you share the space details? I’ll try to make it, but the questions are straightforward.
And it’s good to provide your response here for the record.

On-Chain Proposal Timeline

  • Why bypass the standard 14-day discussion period? Can you explain the urgency?
  • What specific development work would be impacted by not having closure on your proposal by Jan 1?

Operational “Margin”

  • Can you justify charging the Hub $100K in overhead costs associated with each FTE working on Hydro?
  • This amounts to $600K total - is this an appropriate use of community funds?

Entity Formation

  • Will the receiving entity be properly formed before the on-chain proposal? (if you do rush it)
  • Will the proposal include complete entity details?

Funding Amount

Given AADAO’s imminent decision on your $350K grant request:

  • $350k represents ~30% of your total $1.2M funding request. Wouldn’t it make more sense to wait for their decision before proceeding?

First, thank you @Thyborg for starting this discussion and @Cosmos_Nanny for the questions you raised. I see many questions about planning and financing, and I don’t have more questions on that side. I’m looking forward to the upcoming Twitter spaces to hear answers to Grace’s questions and other community inquiries.

It is no secret that I’m very excited about Hydro’s vision. Liquidity is the core of any blockchain ecosystem, and Hydro brings a new way to solve this. Instead of ATOM just sitting in the community pool, it becomes an active tool for ecosystem growth. Projects can now get liquidity they would never have accessed before.

First, the project is remarkable because it changes how we think about liquidity – from a top-down process to a collaborative model. It empowers long-term ATOM stakers, who must lock their tokens for multiple months, to directly participate in liquidity deployment through a transparent, community-driven system.

Then, the community’s interest is impressive. When capacity was raised for the second round, it was completely filled in less than 4 minutes, showing how much people want this project. Now, dedicated ATOM stakers have a direct voice in choosing and supporting initiatives that need liquidity, instead of traditional community pool requests.

Finally, having worked closely with the Hydro team and planning to build on their platform, I can confirm their commitment to creating a robust, community-first infrastructure.

So, despite having questions about some details, I am in full support of the funding proposal that will help the Hydro team achieve their long-term vision of deploying liquidity across the interchain and beyond.

Thank you.

Kind regards,
arlai

4 Likes

Ideally you can answer them here on the governance forum too. All are valid questions for an ask of this size

1 Like

And I went on the site 5 mins after the round opened :confused:

So still not a Hydro participant…

4 Likes

Really incredible to see the progress on Hydro as a product - Informal Systems has done a great job paving the way expanding the Cosmos Hubs offering beyond just security, and I think the broader Cosmos is starting to get excited about bidding on ATOM (in more ways than one).

Hydro has shown a couple of core competencies that I think are in line with this new era of Cosmos Hub:

  • Rapid shipping - iteration loops are fast, and community feedback is taken in real time (recommend joining the telegram channel here)
  • A product people want (multiple protocols participating, more to come)
  • Solves a problem - protocols want more ATOM liquidity, and it can be hard to source it directly from the open market in size
  • Meaningful roadmap - the addition of vote optimizers, automated hedging, insurance premiums, advanced data gathering for optimized LP, Valence integrations, etc. are all key to turning Hydro into something industry leading
  • Omnichain in nature - any mature project can participate, and Hydro invites non-ICS projects to be able to interact with the Cosmos Hub
  • Active governance participation: ATOM holders gain a direct role in shaping the network’s future by voting on liquidity deployments, fostering a more engaged community.
  • Meaningful economic rewards: strategic liquidity allocations can generate returns for the ATOM community, potentially increasing the value of ATOM holdings.

Fully in support of Hydro and this proposal, I believe Hydro is going to be a mission critical part of the Cosmos Hub Renaissance of 2025. And while there may be some minutiae to work through on some of the details of funding or entities, I view Hydro through the lens of optimism & excitement that the Cosmos Hub is here to build products that people want.

Additionally, I think it is worth asking the question of “…how much value will Hydro provide to Cosmos Hub over the course of the next 5 years…” as I think it can help recalibrate on how people think about the capital being requested by the builders here. (Hint: value created is capable of being $100M+ imo).

We want a highly motivated and skilled team running full steam ahead on Hydro. I’d encourage us to not break that dynamic.

8 Likes

Wow, some people are really so much better than me at expressing their excitement through words.

That’s actually something I also wanted to say, but somehow missed it in my comment :sweat_smile: though that is a key point in my view.
We are all so much excited by all recent news, still trying to realize what it means, but for me Hydro is one of the key products that are going to reshape how the Cosmos Hub is going to be seen: Innovating, bringing products that are useful and wanted by the community as well as other projects, and hopefully self-sustainable soon.

That’s also why I did not hesitate one second when I saw the opportunity to build on top of Hydro.

Well, thanks @Carter_Lee_Woetzel for saying things much better than I could, and I’m looking soo much forward to 2025 and what it will bring!:pray:

Regards,
arlai

5 Likes

Hey there, Grace. An Atom Zone space has been scheduled on X for Monday. Be sure to open the link so you can set a reminder to join us.

Looking forward to discussing your questions one by one in the space.

Here is the link to join on Monday.

Looking forward to also seeing everyone reading and replying in this thread there!

2 Likes

I’m impressed by the hard work and dedication @btruax and the Hydro team have shown. Their transparency, responsiveness, and collaborative approach have made it much easier to navigate and support Hydro’s development. The team has demonstrated a strong commitment to building a sustainable, ATOM-aligned product that benefits the entire ecosystem.

We are currently in the process of finalizing 5 Hydro-aligned grants, which include:
• Zephyrus and Eris for vote aggregation tools
• Range and Immunefi for security and risk management
• Margined for delta-neutral LPing strategies

In addition, we are actively working with Brian and the Hydro DAO to secure additional funding aimed at bootstrapping development for the broader protocol. This includes continued support for key partners like Valance, as well as Numia and other data analytics providers. These partners play a crucial role in enhancing Hydro’s transparency, performance tracking, and overall user experience.

One of the aspects I appreciate most about Hydro is its clear alignment with community-first principles. Brian has made it clear that no funding will go to the Hydro team. Instead, any additional leftovers will be distributed back to the Cosmos Hub’s community pool, which is a significant demonstration of good faith and long-term sustainability. That said, we are working on a budget plan to ensure there is proper oversight and accountability as this process unfolds.

The early performance of Hydro has been exceptional. Caps are being filled quickly during auction rounds, often within minutes, which speaks to the strong demand and utility for projects leveraging Hydro. By providing an opportunity for additional yield on ATOM, Hydro creates a new source of revenue for the community while supporting ATOM’s role as a dominant Interchain capital asset.

Overall, the Hydro team has demonstrated a strong commitment to transparency, execution, and value alignment with the broader Hub community. We see significant potential in Hydro’s future and remain committed to supporting its continued growth and success as we sunset AADAO.

Godspeed!

6 Likes

Thank you for sharing this detailed proposal. It’s clear that Hydro is already demonstrating its potential as a key contributor to the Cosmos Hub, especially with how quickly the auction caps were filled during the pilot rounds. This shows the strong demand and the value Hydro brings to projects seeking liquidity within the ecosystem.

I also agree with points raised by others, like @Quasar’s observation about Hydro’s ability to increase staked ATOM and enhance network security. By tying participation to staking, Hydro directly supports decentralization while giving ATOM stakers a meaningful role in ecosystem growth.

That said, I share some of the concerns raised by @Cosmos_Nanny regarding the shortened discussion timeline. While it’s important to maintain momentum, I’d like to better understand the urgency for a January 1 decision. What specific developments require clarity by that date, and how would a slight delay impact progress, especially during the quieter holiday period?

Additionally, the budget’s overhead costs, as pointed out by @Cosmos_Nanny, feel significant for a 6-person team. More transparency on how these costs directly benefit Hydro’s development and align with community funding would be helpful.

Overall, I echo the optimism many have shared about Hydro’s long-term vision. Its focus on building a sustainable, ATOM-aligned protocol with clear governance mechanisms shows a commitment to both innovation and community alignment. Looking forward to hearing more in the upcoming discussions and seeing how Hydro evolves in 2025.

2 Likes

Hey everyone, this is am important proposal that I encourage everyone to vote “Yes” on.

In 2022, I spent months putting myself in the shoes of the Cosmos Hub, researching ways to accrue value, and proposing a path toward achieving that value accrual. Lending ATOM is a key step along that path.

Hydro so far has been a proof of concept to prove whether there is demand to borrow ATOM for a fee. The answer is a resounding “YES!” given how quickly each of the two rounds have sold out.

Given the success of Hydro, it is in the Hub’s best interest to double down on Hydro not just in terms of increasing the amount of ATOM lent via Hydro, but to also upgrade Hydro from a PoC to sustainable product by adding features and increasing automation. These features and automations won’t build themselves.

While Hydro is currently able to surface the intent of the Hub to direct liquidity to various places, Hydro relies on a multisig to get the liquidity from point A to B. This multisig is a reasonable compromise for a PoC to accelerate go-to-market with a small budget, but it is not a long-term sustainable solution as deals get more complex, happen more often, and get larger.

My team at Timewave has been hard at work on Valence, which is a cross-chain execution environment that could automate Hydro. I hope that the community will recognize the value of Hydro and support its further development.

5 Likes

my contribution to this conversation is about the funds requested:

  • i would strongly suggest that the funds are given over time and in USDC not in atom (on a per month basis)
  • since Hydro is a benefit for all the chain and all projects that want to deploy on different chains, i think it’s only proper to get chains to help funding the project, in particular the auditing of the contracts as many chains have deals with auditors
  • AFAIK Neutron has a lot of grant money that did not use, they should cooperate too (you know why)

I agree with Grace here the timing and limits of the proposal are strange and while in general the proposal make sense, the points that Grace underline, dont.

Cheers

V

1 Like

Thank you @Thyborg for this detailed proposal. The vision and execution of Hydro has been quite amazing, as well as the community response and how fast the second round filled! This clearly points to the strong demand for innovative liquidity solutions in Cosmos.

We at the Mars Foundation are pretty excited about Hydro’s plans for automated delta-neutral strategies. One of the top use-cases that Mars Perps unlock is better risk-adjusted yield opportunities. Delta-Neutral LPing is such a great strategy because it allows users to hedge vol risk and can offset IL (if not invert it completely) by collecting the funding rate. Mars managed vaults (already audited & planned to be launched in early Q1) are going to be introduced for exactly these use-cases, providing an out-of-the-box vault infrastructure to create these types of strategies seamlessly. A vault can be managed either by an active person, a bot, or as in Hydro’s use-case, by a Smart Contract.

In that sense, the allocation to build hedging smart contracts is in my view quite compelling.

Beyond the technical aspects, I appreciate how this proposal shows a deep understanding of what’s needed to create sustainable DeFi infrastructure.

I realize this is pretty advanced DeFi, and both myself and the Mars team are at Hydro’s disposal both from technical & mechanism/product standpoints to make this happen. We look forward to collaborating with Hydro and its grant recipients.

6 Likes

I urge a veto of this proposal because:

  • If hydro is continued, we build further dependencies on the LSM, which was authored by the north Korean military who were contracted by iqlusion and funded by ICF via iqlusion. When contacted by by the FBI, Zaki Manian, CEO of iqlusion chose not to inform ICF or the wider community, and chose to allow the majority of the code fo ship in an unaltered form while claiming that it had been fully rebuilt. LSM is fine. North Korean military being funded by us isn’t fine. Shipping north Korean military code isn’t fine. Audits aren’t enough. It just needs to go, because the LSM poses a cosmos hub death risk from a reputational and security angle.

  • I think hydro will have a negative impact on the price of atom. For similar reasons, osmosis moved primary liquidity away from the osmo token. Having primary liquidity in atom will drive the price of atom down anytime anybody wants to exit one of the many hydro driven projects. This was the very clear finding of the Osmosis community.

  • Willful violation of the 2-week review period by a team that has enforced it in the past. Rules for thy but not for me. Wait like you told everyone else to wait.

  • Hydro doesn’t even run on the Hub and therefore should not be funded by the Hub

  • Hydro is built using a smart contract framework that is being deprecated

  • I believe that the hub needs a clean break with the past. I think that hydro will undermine the success and vitality of the cosmos hub by removing control of the roadmap from Skip. For example, hydro prevents the removal of the LSM, which should be a high priority.

  • The committee based structure is anathema to decentralization.

If LSM is exploited I don’t see the hub being able to regain user trust. Ever. And the users would be right not to trust.

2 Likes